tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-285274386924865021.post2743865486232142723..comments2024-01-27T08:40:56.156+00:00Comments on Pass the Garum: PoscaNeillhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13650697336655938430noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-285274386924865021.post-70372771757561343042014-10-25T05:21:35.305+01:002014-10-25T05:21:35.305+01:00I think sekanjabin usually steeps an herb of some ...I think sekanjabin usually steeps an herb of some kind in hot water/syrup - the recipe I learned combines sugar, water, and mint over heat, then adds red wine vinegar off-heat after the mint is removed. I've also had thyme, lavendar, and basil sekanjabins.DrGaellonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06494901709464910726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-285274386924865021.post-49491984757623929712014-09-07T02:31:54.293+01:002014-09-07T02:31:54.293+01:00There was a recent "My Grandmother's Ravi...There was a recent "My Grandmother's Ravioli" episode where a drink was served which had the ingredients vinegar, shiso leaves and sweetener. Water was not mentioned. I wonder what kind of vinegar it was....Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10707752622459486940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-285274386924865021.post-32136235947156221602014-03-18T12:47:34.679+00:002014-03-18T12:47:34.679+00:00My grandmother gave me a vinegar, water and honey ...My grandmother gave me a vinegar, water and honey mix for my regular sore throats - the vinegar was later replaced with lemon juice.KAZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02228154510234055492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-285274386924865021.post-47833674017710585812014-02-13T16:35:50.365+00:002014-02-13T16:35:50.365+00:00Another vinegar drink popular in colonial times is...Another vinegar drink popular in colonial times is shrub (a name derived from the Arabic sharab, meaning to drink) - this one uses a fruit with the vinegar and sugar/honey. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrub_(drink)). Another similar drink is sharbat or sekanjabin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharbat), popular in the Middle East.Cozy Badger Fiber Artshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07413008459967997917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-285274386924865021.post-10586648975912126382014-01-11T16:21:30.150+00:002014-01-11T16:21:30.150+00:00My father said when he was growing up in Portugal ...My father said when he was growing up in Portugal they had a version of this. A little vinegar and (in his case) sugar in water. Never believed me, but historical ties between Rome and Portugal (land of the Gauls, after all) show some interesting tie-ins.Gaming Penguinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17972825102636041438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-285274386924865021.post-63435301728756798782013-10-05T02:08:55.953+01:002013-10-05T02:08:55.953+01:00This sounds very much like the Shrub's being s...This sounds very much like the Shrub's being served in posh restaurants these days. I love them, so I'm sure I'll like this as well.Maxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18357088111085844615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-285274386924865021.post-72857796577726284972013-10-05T01:44:26.559+01:002013-10-05T01:44:26.559+01:00It sounds like sekanjabin to me! Sekanjabin is fre...It sounds like sekanjabin to me! Sekanjabin is frequently made from vinegar, water, and honey.litlnemohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03450588850736881105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-285274386924865021.post-7730471230040229762013-09-27T12:31:53.997+01:002013-09-27T12:31:53.997+01:00Version two is undoubtedly the winner in my eyes -...Version two is undoubtedly the winner in my eyes - I've had several glasses of the stuff in the last few days.Neillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13650697336655938430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-285274386924865021.post-81489209154653304412013-09-27T12:31:17.252+01:002013-09-27T12:31:17.252+01:00I've never heard of verjuice before now! I se...I've never heard of verjuice before now! I see that it is used as an ingredient too, which, coincidentally, is what we'll be doing with the posca next week.Neillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13650697336655938430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-285274386924865021.post-18956732923885072292013-09-27T12:28:50.472+01:002013-09-27T12:28:50.472+01:00A very thorough analysis there! I appreciate now ...A very thorough analysis there! I appreciate now that it's not so simple as I had assumed.<br /><br />Given the disparity between the gospels, it really is hard to come to a conclusion about the meaning of the gesture.Neillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13650697336655938430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-285274386924865021.post-49402425509105828082013-09-27T12:24:11.170+01:002013-09-27T12:24:11.170+01:00Fascinating! It's really interesting that mos...Fascinating! It's really interesting that most of us would turn our noses up at drinking vinegar, when it's been happening for so long!Neillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13650697336655938430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-285274386924865021.post-17132682784296915912013-09-26T17:31:13.417+01:002013-09-26T17:31:13.417+01:00I'm sitting in the garden drinking your versio...I'm sitting in the garden drinking your version two now. It indeed quite palatable. Not sure I'd like salt in it (could never stand gatorade). The point about Jesus is very well made. mymhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12750521398883913977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-285274386924865021.post-69495012627197723722013-09-26T12:45:12.657+01:002013-09-26T12:45:12.657+01:00I wondered about verjus/verjuice when I read this,...I wondered about verjus/verjuice when I read this, which makes a refreshing drink with soda/water. Verjuice was known to the Romans, I understand, and the one I have tried (we have a local producer, Maggie Beer) was certainly slightly sweeter than vinegar. skiourophilehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08200877834536477400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-285274386924865021.post-62433721922486647122013-09-24T18:53:27.698+01:002013-09-24T18:53:27.698+01:00Yeah, I too had read there were no recipes about t...Yeah, I too had read there were no recipes about them. On the other hand, I do remember seeing a scholarly article about pennyroyal and posca, which I did not read at the time, but really need to track down now. <br /><br />Seems like Anthimus is not obscure to those interested in food, so it's particularly weird he's not generally quoted. Aëtius and Paul of Aegina may not be well known, but both are excellent sources of drink recipes! As for that Oxyrhynchus Papyrus, well I was just lucky enough to stumble on it by chance, and found, to my surprise, a recipe for posca... that's what got me looking for others in the first place.<br /><br />The incident with Jesus is difficult to interpret for a number of reasons:<br /><br />1. The details vary slightly, but significantly, from account to account: <br />• In Matthew 27 "they" (it is implied, but not stated, to be Roman soldiers) give it to him at Golgotha, but before he's actually crucified, and he tastes it but refuses to drink. This is the account that mentions gall.<br />• In Mark 15 "someone" (implied, but not stated, to be a Jew) gives it to him on a reed. No additives are mentioned (however, earlier in the chapter, "they" offer him wine with myrrh), nor whether he drank it or not. He dies immediately after.<br />• In Like 23 the soldiers (explicitly mentioned) offer him vinegar, apparently early in the crucifiction. Nothing is stated about additives, the stick, or whether he accepted it or not.<br />• In John 19 "they" give it to him "upon hyssop" (referring, apparently, to the stickused to raise the sponge to his mouth, but interestingly one of Aëtius' recipes calls for hyssop—unfortunately it's usually thought to refer to a different plant in the Bible than in classical literature. Of course it surprises me that *anything* called "hyssop" could reach the mouth of a man on a cross!) He accepts it, and dies immediately after.<br /><br />2. The NT accounts generally assume this is a form of mockery. They well be misunderstanding the Roman custom, but it's hard to imagine gall being added to posca *except* as a form of torment. Furthermore, the use of a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xylospongium" rel="nofollow">sponge on a stick</a> is suspicious.<br /><br />3. Since posca was refreshing, it could certainly be seen as an act of sympathy. On the other hand, it was also seen as improving stamina, and when you're dying on a cross stamina is not necessarily a good thing!<br /><br />So, yeah, I've considered the incident before, but I'm still not entirely certain what to make of it!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-285274386924865021.post-4855527445233244152013-09-24T13:09:27.339+01:002013-09-24T13:09:27.339+01:00In North America, switchel (vinegar, water, and mo...In North America, switchel (vinegar, water, and molasses) was often served to labourers as a sort of proto-gatorade: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switchel. It's not half bad, either, but then I've always liked molasses. Stamatiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10456787903949292496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-285274386924865021.post-7098185192173533182013-09-24T07:49:46.785+01:002013-09-24T07:49:46.785+01:00Fantastic! Cheers for providing some sources. I ...Fantastic! Cheers for providing some sources. I think that their relative obscurity is why I've not yet encountered them, although I'm surprised that they weren't mentioned in any of the secondary material I read either. I shall do my best to find them, try them out, and get them online too.<br /><br />It's very interesting that the vast majority call for salt. I'm sure you've often heard that in the bible, a Roman soldier offered Jesus a mixture of vinegar and gall. I know that the 'vinegar' was actually posca, so the addition of salty gall makes sense. That rather changes the meaning of the gesture from one of mockery to one of mercy, don't you think?<br /><br />Feel free to post the measures here in the comments, for all to see, and when I try them out I'll make sure to mention you.Neillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13650697336655938430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-285274386924865021.post-5426502637416681932013-09-24T00:09:38.228+01:002013-09-24T00:09:38.228+01:00The oft repeated claim that we have no recipes for...The oft repeated claim that we have no recipes for <i>posca</i> is incorrect. In fact I know of six! Granted, these are all in medical texts, so probably do not represent the everyday form of the drink, but the line between food and medicine was much thinner in antiquity, and in particular the Romans seem to have been fond of drinks with purported medical effects. Each recipe calls for vinegar-water (unfortunately none of them says in what ratio!) and pennyroyal. All but one of them call for salt. None of them contains a sweetener (well, one counts for melon flesh—and seeds!—to be mixed in. The same one, in fact, that omits the salt.)<br /><br />If you think about it, we still like to drink acidic drinks in hot weather, particularly lemonade. And furthermore, what is Gatorade if not acid and salt? It makes a lot of sense for worn out soldiers baking in the sun, loaded down with packs and armor, to drink this stuff.<br /><br />Here are my sources:<br /><br />• <i>P.Oxy.</i> 1384 <br />• Anthimus <i>De Observatione Ciborum</i> 58<br />• Aëtius <i>Iatrica</i> 3.81—82 (two recipes)<br />• Paul of Aegina, <i>Epitomæ Medicæ</i> 7.5.10 (two recipes)<br /><br />If you want more information, e.g. the measures given in those recipes, get in touch.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com